Bitcoins--Who has any practical experience?

I have an idiot 16 year old step-brother-in-law who has convinced his parents that he doesn't need to go to school anymore and can make hundreds of thousands of dollars "mining" bitcoins on his personal PC. I've done a little bit of research online and "mining" usually involves huge server rooms loaded with huge servers crunching huge numbers. One little PC can't possibly crank out the numbers required to amount to anything. And, from what I've read, you can't even recover the electrical costs from running the PC 24/7.

But this kid "says" that he has bought clothes and various other products online with his limited number of bitcoins and that the future is going the way of bitcoins. He even points to Donald Trump as trumpeting bitcoins.

His mother is completely freaked out and doesn't know what to do. She just lets him do whatever his wants. To me, he's just a spoiled punk with no friends and no social skills. He just sits in his room and plays games.

So, who knows anything practical about these things and how do I convince his parents that this is a lost cause? Or, is it?

TIA

Interesting, shame on me for never looking into it.
I have computing resources and I'm pretty sure I can optimize the algorithms...
If I ever get into this I promise I will give you one bitcoin out of the first payout.
As far as your BIL goes... don't know, he may be wasting his time or he may hit it once big... looking at $25k payout.
Quit school to do it... that is absolutely stupid. Being good at programming and knowing how to write lower-level code that executes crazy-fast... that is something that can help, but basically it's a matter of starting the process and letting it run from what I see...

Read on: http://arstechnica.com/business/2014...All+content%29

Yeah Jaxson, you are right. It requires a tremendous amount of computing power to compete. It's all not worth it. I started looking into this last year and finally realized some things.

First, there are dedicated mining boxes you can buy (google search for "butterfly labs"). They use GPU cycles to do the mining. The computer or box or whatever you are using gets hot while it's working so hard. Your electrical bill ends up being bigger than the sum of money you would make mining per month.

Next, there are many places all around the world that have entire warehouses dedicated to computer equipment for mining. So for little guys like us, it's impossible to compete by mining on your own. Heck, even if you had a rack with a bunch of Xeon servers it wouldn't be nearly enough. So you join a mining pool (i.e. Slush's pool). But once you start you quickly realize what a waste of time/energy it is.

By the way, as soon as an algorithm is solved, a more difficult one comes up. And so on and so forth.

Then there's stuff like what Mobile PC posted. There's constant scandal happening in the world of Bitcoin. So let's say you start a Mt. Gox account. Then you create your BT wallet. Then you join, a mining pool and start mining. And let's say after all that you manage to make a few bucks (which by the way is registered as a teeny tiny 0.000000000something amount). Or you get impatient and use real money to start your account. Well,... next thing you know they delete the site that was in charge of the account, your money is all gone and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

It's a scam. The ONLY way this would ever be worth it is if you had put money into back in 2008/2009ish and now it's worth something and you cash it in for real money. Otherwise it's all just tricks and illusions.

By the way, here's a "How a bitcoin transaction works" infographic: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...130512_BTC.jpg

Oh and there's other ways to make bitcoin. You can go on malware infected sites and do surveys. Oh gee, what a great way to make money! LOL.

And another thing, once you get all setup, you'll have a number that corresponds to your wallet. You can put broadcast it by putting it on your social media accounts, or hand out business cards, or whatever the case may be. Somewhere along the line a generous person might donate bitcoins to you.

I have my wallet posted on my twitter account for example. Couldn't hurt. It's like leaving a bucket out for someone to drop money into.

Mt. Gox just went under... owing millions. It's a risky business

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Originally Posted by NooNoo

Mt. Gox just went under... owing millions. It's a risky business

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Yup! I have a Mt Gox account too. Luckily I didn't have any money in it. I just opened the account just to try it out. Although I haven't tried logging in lately to see what the state of the site actually is.

5 years ago your idiot step brother would have been spot on, but I'm afraid the horse has bolted on this money making idea.

So I looked into it... based on the computational requirements, even if I programmed the CPU to use all 8cores at 1 instruction/clock, 32bil ops/sec (4GHz x 8 cores), the computational requirements are so high that I wouldn't be paying for the electricity used (thing supported by other people's research, GPUs are by far more efficient at this).
SHA-256 space is ~1.15*10^77 (1 followed by 77 zeroes)
Still some say the threshold has been reached and even the best GPUs don't break even with the cost in electricity. One data center put all the idle power to work and yielded 0.43BC in 1 year. YAWN.
For some reason I see bitcoin mining being the target of the next gen of malware. 100mil computers doing the work for "free"...
I'll stick to designing websites and coding for now...
Kick the BIL in the butt and send him to school... tell him that CeeBee said it's not worth it in 2014 and coming 2016 the payout drops in half.

Well, I'm sure he'll buy that. If CeeBee sez it, it must be true!

Seriously tho, his parents need to show some backbone and get this kid back in school. He used his mom's credit card to purchase one of those GPU's and cooling fans to use on her PC. It has a faster processor than his laptop.

He's on his way to being an absolute loser or a serial killer...I'm not sure which.

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Originally Posted by JaxSon

Well, I'm sure he'll buy that. If CeeBee sez it, it must be true!

Seriously tho, his parents need to show some backbone and get this kid back in school. He used his mom's credit card to purchase one of those GPU's and cooling fans to use on her PC. It has a faster processor than his laptop.

He's on his way to being an absolute loser or a serial killer...I'm not sure which.

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I've been taking classes and trying to finish my 2 year degree finally. If I have one regret, it's that I didn't just get this done sooner. In my opinion, it's a huge mistake to not just get it done early on.

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Originally Posted by JaxSon

Well, I'm sure he'll buy that. If CeeBee sez it, it must be true!

Seriously tho, his parents need to show some backbone and get this kid back in school. He used his mom's credit card to purchase one of those GPU's and cooling fans to use on her PC. It has a faster processor than his laptop.

He's on his way to being an absolute loser or a serial killer...I'm not sure which.

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Sometimes despite the fact you can see the train wreck coming, you just have to let it happen. If you don't allow a kid to fail, they don't learn a damn thing. If the parents want to indulge this kid, no amount of reasonable explanation from you will stop that behaviour or worse, they try it and bollux it up completely further alienating the kid and then you get the blame.

Tell them by all means bitcoin mining is a fools errand, but stop there. The kid will work it out eventually and make his own decision. The more you push someone into doing the right thing the less likely the kid will do the right thing.

If you want to help, just try to be a favourite uncle, ready to talk things through without pressure and allow him to make his own mind up and take his own action. Let's face it, if he is that bad, then in 3 weeks when he hasn't managed to get a single bit coin, he will go on to the next get rich quick without doing any work scheme.

This is all new to me. I checked into using bit coins once but it looked like too much hassle for what little need I had for them. As for the mining, never heard of it.

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Originally Posted by Pinnacle-Project

This is all new to me. I checked into using bit coins once but it looked like too much hassle for what little need I had for them. As for the mining, never heard of it.

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Apparently it could have been very profitable 5 years but today you'd better own a nuclear power plant - the average cost of electricity used currently exceeds the average payout.

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Originally Posted by CeeBee

Apparently it could have been very profitable 5 years but today you'd better own a nuclear power plant - the average cost of electricity used currently exceeds the average payout.

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Exactly. It's just mathematically not probable that it would ever be worth it at this point in time. I think a person has a better chance of winning the lottery at the moment.

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Originally Posted by NooNoo

Sometimes despite the fact you can see the train wreck coming, you just have to let it happen. If you don't allow a kid to fail, they don't learn a damn thing. If the parents want to indulge this kid, no amount of reasonable explanation from you will stop that behaviour or worse, they try it and bollux it up completely further alienating the kid and then you get the blame.

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True but hard. Elder Child is doing a 2 year degree plan in computer security, and she's strapped for cash. For years I tried to get her interested in basic computer repair, but she couldn't be bothered. Now, she has a job application in at her college's IT department, and she's found a new love for anything computer related. While she was home on spring break she helped me replace a hard drive in an iMac, install a HSF in an HP Pavillion DV6 and replace an LCD panel in an HP Pavillion DV4. With the exception of the iMac, she did most of the work while I just supervised and gave directions. She also built two new desktops while I supervised. I wish we could have done a malware removal or two, but it didn't happen. Of course the main reason she's poor right now is that she spent most of the money we had put into her college fund on trips last summer. Bummer.

I recently found myself wondering how you were. Did you win you battle with cancer?

Hey, strange thread to ask about such things but thanks for thinking about me.
I am a certified cancer survivor! Doc took out a huge tumor in my bladder that was preventing me from peeing. It was awful! But now, I. P. Freely! Doc scoped me about a month ago and gave me the All Clear. Have not had any issues at all and my love life is better than ever.
So how have you been? Heard you caught Covid. I take it you recovered. So what are your views on getting vaccinated? I've been fully vaccinated for several months now and practically every one I know has been vaccinated.
Had to go to Mexico on a business trip about a month ago and practically NObody under 50 was vaccinated. But everyone was wearing their face mask and observing social distancing. I was very impressed. Still don't wanna go back anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by JaxSon

Hey, strange thread to ask about such things but thanks for thinking about me.
I am a certified cancer survivor! Doc took out a huge tumor in my bladder that was preventing me from peeing. It was awful! But now, I. P. Freely! Doc scoped me about a month ago and gave me the All Clear. Have not had any issues at all and my love life is better than ever.
So how have you been? Heard you caught Covid. I take it you recovered. So what are your views on getting vaccinated? I've been fully vaccinated for several months now and practically every one I know has been vaccinated.
Had to go to Mexico on a business trip about a month ago and practically NObody under 50 was vaccinated. But everyone was wearing their face mask and observing social distancing. I was very impressed. Still don't wanna go back anytime soon.

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That is awesome news man!

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Originally Posted by JaxSon

Hey, strange thread to ask about such things but thanks for thinking about me.
I am a certified cancer survivor! Doc took out a huge tumor in my bladder that was preventing me from peeing. It was awful! But now, I. P. Freely! Doc scoped me about a month ago and gave me the All Clear. Have not had any issues at all and my love life is better than ever.
So how have you been? Heard you caught Covid. I take it you recovered. So what are your views on getting vaccinated? I've been fully vaccinated for several months now and practically every one I know has been vaccinated.
Had to go to Mexico on a business trip about a month ago and practically NObody under 50 was vaccinated. But everyone was wearing their face mask and observing social distancing. I was very impressed. Still don't wanna go back anytime soon.

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I know we disagree on many things I can honesty say it put a smile on my face that you are healthy and doing well. Congrats man on beating the cancer.

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Originally Posted by Overdrv

I know we disagree on many things I can honesty say it put a smile on my face that you are healthy and doing well. Congrats man on beating the cancer.

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Thanks! I appreciate that.

I honestly believe that we all want the same basic things in life: Peace, Freedom and Prosperity. And to leave a better world for our kids than what we had. We may have different ideas and opinions on how to achieve that goal, but wish no ill will on anyone.

Hope you and yours have a Happy and Safe holiday season.