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So let's see how this would play out.
User calls and says "I came in this morning and can't access network resources. Network drives, email, internet."

Webby gets up from his desk and walks (or drives if the office is more than one building) to the users desk, crawls under the desk and looks to see if the cable is connected

What does he learn?
*If the cable is connected

Lance asks user to run ipconfig /all from a command prompt
What does he learn
*If the cable is connected through to a switch
*If the IP address is configured correctly
*If the subnet mask is configured correctly
*If the DNS servers are configured correctly
*If the gateway is configured correctly
*If the IP is assigned statically or dynamically
*If Dynamically assigned the IP address of the DHCP server that gave the computer the address
*Whether the computer can contact a DHCP server (169.254.XXX.XXX address)

So you tell me what gives the most information to troubleshoot a generic network access problem as a first step?

I'm gonna blow everybody away here and say that I actually agree with webby here. Yes, ipconfig will give you all kinds of info but one of the first things I learned while troubleshooting is to do a good "visual" inspection. You look for anything that's out of the ordinary. Of course, this means you have to know what is ordinary or expected. You look for disconnected or cocked cables, anything smoking and/or burnt, dust or hair blocking air flow, etc.

When you remove the cover off of a desktop, that is the first thing you do: a good visual inspection.

Having said that, I still don't like him. :D :D

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Originally Posted by ilovetheusers

We are techs, we know everything and everyone must know that we know everything and we honestly don't mean anything by it. Remember how you called me Sheldon once? Kind of like that maybe?

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Did I call you Sheldon? Oh man. LOL. Totally just joking if I did. But yeah, I know what you're saying. It's the mind of the tech guy with the big ego and knows everything. lol.

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Originally Posted by JaxSon

I'm gonna blow everybody away here and say that I actually agree with webby here. Yes, ipconfig will give you all kinds of info but one of the first things I learned while troubleshooting is to do a good "visual" inspection. You look for anything that's out of the ordinary. Of course, this means you have to know what is ordinary or expected. You look for disconnected or cocked cables, anything smoking and/or burnt, dust or hair blocking air flow, etc.

When you remove the cover off of a desktop, that is the first thing you do: a good visual inspection.

Having said that, I still don't like him. :D :D

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Oh come on now. You do like me. :p

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Originally Posted by 74AD

So let's see how this would play out.
User calls and says "I came in this morning and can't access network resources. Network drives, email, internet."

Webby gets up from his desk and walks (or drives if the office is more than one building) to the users desk, crawls under the desk and looks to see if the cable is connected

What does he learn?
*If the cable is connected

Lance asks user to run ipconfig /all from a command prompt
What does he learn
*If the cable is connected through to a switch
*If the IP address is configured correctly
*If the subnet mask is configured correctly
*If the DNS servers are configured correctly
*If the gateway is configured correctly
*If the IP is assigned statically or dynamically
*If Dynamically assigned the IP address of the DHCP server that gave the computer the address
*Whether the computer can contact a DHCP server (169.254.XXX.XXX address)

So you tell me what gives the most information to troubleshoot a generic network access problem as a first step?

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Yeah, because *gasp* getting up out of my chair to go walk over to a person and interact with them? Wow,... what a scary thought! Heck, my last IT job was at a civil engineering company. There were 4 locations in the bay area. And yeah, sometimes I'd have to drive over there. Heck, we are having problems right now with our product line in Thailand. So far they have had some success and some fail with the test systems. It's very possible I might have to fly over there and check. And why? Because Thailand's government basically has us completely locked out. I don't mean "us" like me or my company. I just mean in general. Government is very strict about Internet access in those countries. And you want to go get on the phone with the Thai IT guy and try to work through all that? Be my guest. Not gonna happen though. Anyway, every situation is different. It's not a blanket solution for any of it. But according to network and systems admin school, it is just a general rule of thumb to start at the physical layer when troubleshooting. And if you don't want to do that, you don't have to. It's just a statement. I'm just passing along the information that I've acquired. If there is better information, then I'm certainly open to it. There is nothing saying you are wrong if you'd rather open a command prompt and type something. There's no right or wrong here. You just do what you have to do to get it done.

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Originally Posted by CeeBee

Computers aren't routers. Nobody touches a router. If a router stops working it's because there is a hardware failure or someone has intentionally changed the configuration. A half-decent router will reboot if it locks up and normal operation will resume. OK, the home variety may just sit there unresponsive, in which case the first step is to power-cycle.
And speaking of troubleshooting with the physical layer first, an IPCONFIG will positively show the status - unlike the link LED. You can very well have a link that is up but no communication because the chip is locked - effectively having an interface that is down although the physical link is up.

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Computers aren't routers? As far as I've ever known, computers are anything you want them to be.

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Originally Posted by Webhead

Computers aren't routers? As far as I've ever known, computers are anything you want them to be.

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Different hardware architecture. You can turn a computer into a router but it is not the same as a dedicated hardware device.
A decent dedicated router will have a hardware watchdog that issues a reset command if the software fails to tell it to not do it for a given period or if the supply power drops between a certain threshold even for a fraction of a second (brownout) and proper operation of the circuitry is no longer guaranteed. Again, this is built into the hardware - completely independent from software, so you will never have a "frozen" device due to software problems.
So when it comes to troubleshooting it does make sense to start checking wiring, because a software/config issue is extremely unlikely unless someone has messed with it.
It all boils down to using critical thinking skills - checking things based on likelihood and clues you have. If everyone has lost internet access and you go to the computer room and detect a smoke smell you don't start messing with wires though, you associate the failure with the smoke and reach the conclusion that the router is toast [pun intended]. Likewise, if Mary from accounting tells you she lost internet after cleaning the desk you would, based on the clues, suspect that she unplugged the network cable.

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Originally Posted by CeeBee

Different hardware architecture. You can turn a computer into a router but it is not the same as a dedicated hardware device.
A decent dedicated router will have a hardware watchdog that issues a reset command if the software fails to tell it to not do it for a given period or if the supply power drops between a certain threshold even for a fraction of a second (brownout) and proper operation of the circuitry is no longer guaranteed. Again, this is built into the hardware - completely independent from software, so you will never have a "frozen" device due to software problems.
So when it comes to troubleshooting it does make sense to start checking wiring, because a software/config issue is extremely unlikely unless someone has messed with it.
It all boils down to using critical thinking skills - checking things based on likelihood and clues you have. If everyone has lost internet access and you go to the computer room and detect a smoke smell you don't start messing with wires though, you associate the failure with the smoke and reach the conclusion that the router is toast [pun intended]. Likewise, if Mary from accounting tells you she lost internet after cleaning the desk you would, based on the clues, suspect that she unplugged the network cable.

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When you say, "a computer" what exactly are you referring to? Because you're losing me here. A router IS a computer. A "dedicated hardware device" IS a computer. Everything is a computer. Computer is just a thing that executes the instructions you give it.

A routing device of course is a constantly evolving thing that always has more and more components to it but at it's core is simply a computer that tells the bits where to go.

So in other words, what exactly is the point you are trying to make? I think you are saying that troubleshooting could vary depending on the situation? And if that's what you are saying, then ok. If possible though it still doesn't hurt to make sure things are plugged in or connected properly. If that is unreasonable to do, then of course you wouldn't do it. It's just a general rule of thumb.

I forgot all about this, must've trashed the email without reading it. Anyhow, I logged in and checked my report and I got an 857. I don't even remember the questions much led alone what ones I might have had problems with.

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Originally Posted by Webhead

When you say, "a computer" what exactly are you referring to? Because you're losing me here. A router IS a computer. A "dedicated hardware device" IS a computer. Everything is a computer. Computer is just a thing that executes the instructions you give it.

A routing device of course is a constantly evolving thing that always has more and more components to it but at it's core is simply a computer that tells the bits where to go.

So in other words, what exactly is the point you are trying to make? I think you are saying that troubleshooting could vary depending on the situation? And if that's what you are saying, then ok. If possible though it still doesn't hurt to make sure things are plugged in or connected properly. If that is unreasonable to do, then of course you wouldn't do it. It's just a general rule of thumb.

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A router is a computer. A "PC" computer is not a router. If your PC freezes due to a software/hardware issue it does nothing, just sits there until you reset it manually. A dedicated device such as a router will not - a reset will be issued at hardware level even if the CPU is stuck in an infinite loop or not processing any instruction whatsoever.
And yes, I'm saying that troubleshooting depends on the situation. You aren't level1 at the cable co where the user calls that both internet and TV are down and you have him power-cycle the modem, router and computer.
In the absence of any hint, you take the path that provides you with the highest amount of info in the lowest amount of time.